I've had an episode quite comparable to this one and it was the last time I visited the US. I don't bitch about it, I don't begrudge the border guards their jobs or attitude (I assume they get a lot of shit heaped on them every day, not an excuse for a non-professional attitude but I'm sure that it eventually wears you down). I simply took my few-hundred-K per year benefit for the US elsewhere, their loss.

Don't like US immigration? Good, don't emigrate to the US. Once enough people do this that it starts to affect the US GDP I'm sure there will be some change. As long as everybody accepts it this will continue or it will even get worse.

I had a pretty lucrative offer about two years ago to become involved in a company. The catch: the work had to be done in the United States. No thanks... But call me when the TSA is abandoned and the border guards are no longer treating immigrants like shit. You know, the way it used to be before everybody went crazy.

And on an off-topic and non-related note, additional conditions would be that Guantanamo is closed, the US ceases its drone program and the CIA gets thoroughly reamed for their 'renditions' program, including full exposure of all parties that were involved domestically and abroad.

Until then the US will have to do without me, I'm quite sure they don't care one bit.

However, I think a difference is that with a product or service, we generally all start from the same place. One day you don't have a cell phone, then you evaluate different services and choose one. Great. With citizenship, most are born with one. I'm lucky enough to be born with three and entitled to a fourth. Am I a better person than you? Why should I get out of this nonsense? (I know this isn't a great metaphor, but hopefully it makes some sense).

Now, these states have determined that I'm a member. However, I didn't really do much to merit membership. I just lucked into it. Basically, on this planet, I have more rights than most people - and that doesn't seem right to me. If I want T-Mobile service, I generally have the same rights as everyone else. Maybe there are discounts for people with certain employers, but it's more equal than unequal. With citizenship, I get a step ahead. While one can argue the merits of citizenship, I think a bit of respect in the process is warranted given that millions are allowed in by no merit of their own.

In this case, US policy is denying someone respect/dignity in accessing something they want: a job, a location, etc. Ok, so you can avoid that by giving something up (the job, location, etc.). What if the US decided that your state was "harbouring terrorists"? Well, you could give up that place as well and avoid the perils of living in a place being invaded/liberated. There is a slight distinction between something you already have and something you want to gain, but when you have a green card, it's kind of something you already have.

I guess my point is that libertarian ideals work great when there's lots of competition, a lack of strong power dynamics, and clear metrics. Here we see a situation with minimal competition (few "elite" economies), a clear disparity in the balance of power, and the cause and effect between treatment of individuals like you and macroeconomic policy is murky at best.

In this case, I think it's fair to call out the problem. Maybe American people don't know that they're losing out on awesome people like you. They should know that. People should know that you would be a great person to have and that US policy is making it so that you won't even consider the US. People (including leaders) can be oblivious to problems. Shining a light on problems like this can lead to change.

From a pragmatic point of view, there's the world-as-it-is and we need to choose between our options as you did. However, I think it's also important to try making things better. Should we not complain when Gmail makes a change we dislike? Google doesn't owe us anything and there are alternatives, but we care about it and want it to be better. We care about Google. We care about our friends who also use the service. Google is important and so it's natural to care about it and for Google to be the best it can be. Similarly, many of us care about the US. It's important; its policies affect hundreds of millions around the world (if not billions); many of us are American or are friends with Americans. I think it's natural to want the US to be better. It's nice when things can just take care of themselves, but sometimes that isn't the case.

On the other hand, since you were given this for free and it wasn't your fault you might as well enjoy the privilege. Personally I think all immigration controls should be abolished. The world will be hell for about a decade, after that we'll all be much better off. Good luck finding a politician that will sign off on that.

Borders are bad.

But over time I've come to see that these are the reasons this final freedom WONT be allowed any time soon. There is great power and profit in the hands of the state when you restrict the free movement of people. For instance, do you think Assad would be all for an open border around Syria at this point in time? Would that strengthen or weaken his power base? Likewise for all countries. Opening movement across borders is good for all free citizens of the world. But very bad for politicians and their cronies.

On top of this politicians in democracies have at their disposal an amazing vote winning tactic. They can at any time exploit the in-group/out-group evolutionary bias, invoke a terrible, external threat, and most of the fearful masses will fall for it and vote for them and their get-tough-on-the-immigrants platform. And so, although I share your vision of a more free world, it just isn't going to happen any time soon.

Borders are either to stop people from leaving or to stop people from arriving. In the first case it is dictators creating a captive audience they can fleece and manipulate. In the second it's the haves that desperately want to avoid being confronted with haves-not.

Take away the borders and you'll reach a natural state of equilibrium in a very short time. A lot of holy apple-carts will be upset by such a move.

In my own personal experience I've crossed the US-Canada border many times, and I remember several times when the wait at the border was hours long. On top of that, I'm very frustrated with the immigration process to get into the US; it's something I think a lot about and I don't think this is for the better for anyone.

How could we make the free movement of people happen?

I'm going to think about this today and see what I come up with.

Since I have the option to ask, I'm wondering if you see criticizing immigration policies as different from criticizing about anything else?

By what right those people in the middle are obstructing the people that want to move is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Let's just say that borders have a special place in my heart and that immigration policies by extension do as well.

Several generations ago it was normal that Europeans had a major war once a generation. Every village in Germany, France, Britain has a monument in it with long lists of names of men who died. Today we can all move freely, work together, share ideas, in many cases even share the same currency, etc. That sometimes causes friction, people like to complain, and newspapers run the occasional sensationalist headline to sell copies. The reality is literally millions of EU citizens now travel in, do business with, interact with, study in, and (in the case of EU elections) even vote in each other's countries. We've come a very, very long way. It has become so normal it almost isn't mentioned any more. Does that mean everything is perfect when different cultures meet? No, of course not. But at least we're not killing each other anymore.

I hope next year when we reach the 100th anniversary of WWI (the sheer scale of the carnage is difficult for us to even fathom today) more is made of how far we've come. And if you think that this progress was all inevitable, consider as a counter example that in our lifetimes there was still ethnic cleansing happening in Europe in Yugoslavia. Peace is hard work, we should all be very thankful.

I believe the problem right now is that most european politicians fail to understand your last paragraph. They simply do not remember (as I do not, but I make an effort to imagine) what it was to be at war and the damage that this caused to Europe and the World in general.

When german leaders are quoted as calling southern europeans "lazy" and greek politicians evoke the Nazis as a defense thesis... you feel that something went really wrong. It's old wounds opening again and each one looking for the best way to put the blame on their neighbor.

I hope human progress will keep this from happening, but these are probably the most critical times for the EU since its beginnings as ECSC.

Well, are they? Border control at US/Canada seems to be more for everybody else rather than Canadians/Americans.

Most people are 'waved' through. Except for the need of a work permit, I'd say it's pretty non existent.

Of course in the EU this is much better

I guess it also depends on the location, I crossed only once, through Vermont

My experiences in airports entering the US (as someone who needs a visa) have been without hassle, thankfully.

Then why do you live in a country that has borders? As per your own policy, you should be in a boat somewhere in international waters.

In most (if not all) of the EU, an immigration officer being presented a native passport has exactly two choices: a) let the person in, b) get the police to arrest him on the spot. In both cases the person is under the local jurisdiction.

It seems the United States has a legal gray area around its borders, and a very black area outside of its borders (think Guantanamo). There are reported cases of people being detained or harassed. So being a US citizen doesn't let you travel worry-free either.

One time I was going to a wedding and I didn't know where it was because my family sent a cab to take me to the hotel. Border guard told me to go to the payphone (hadn't used one in years) and get the address. I complied then asked her what was preventing me from walking out the airport. She told me absolutely nothing. Although I imagine some information would probably be enterred in the USCIS database.

I mean, the land of the free, and all that — and border guards tell you to go to a payphone to get the address of the place you're going to? This just doesn't make sense.

The last few times i've been they essentially ignore the visitor card, (literally) say "Welcome home" and let me in within 30 seconds.

Hearing that after being away for years (for me) and arriving jetlagged after a long flight is pretty emotional. The immigration officers probably just have a game amongst themselves to see how many people they can get to burst in to happy tears.

And they don't ask it like, "Oh, you lived in Canada, what was that all about." They very specifically are questioning my loyalty. Their attitude says if they were legally allowed to deny me entry, they'd love to.

No fingerprinting, no taking pictures, no questions as to what I am doing or where I am going or how long I plan on staying, or what work I do. Nothing. A smile and a welcome home.

But I definitely agree that China seems to be the "easiest" in this sense. No questions at all. :)

Entering France: takes my passport, opens it, stamps it, no questions asked

Entering UK: tons of grilling, return ticket, etc, etc

That's with a non EU passport.

Even if you are registered by some other country in Europe (which was my case, they asked that before I said that I was registered)

The problem with the US immigration system is that none of the people suffering in it can vote to change it. The purpose of my story is to raise awareness amongst US citizens who understand the importance of immigration to the economy that the system is broken, at nearly every level. I can't fix the system by complaining, but they can.

I made my decision independently long ago. You really should ask yourself: if this is not enough to tip the balance for you (who has experienced it firsthand) why would it tip the balance for someone who only gets it second hand?

Nobody is going to fix anything because of this blog post, but you can make a statement that really carries weight.

But if you feel that your greencard is worth more than your dignity or principles then you've made your own bed and now you must lie in it.

But yes, I could pick some other first-world country to move to. In fact, I lived in the UK for seven years: in that time, I made as much progress in my tech career as I did in my first six months in the US.

I think America really is a land of amazing opportunity, and I believe action to change the system from the inside says more than staying out does. And I believe that America is full of decent, compassionate people who genuinely believe that fairness and justice are bedrock principles of their nation, and would be horrified to learn that this is how their country treats some people -- and I'm right, because I can see them saying so elsewhere in this thread.

This is indeed my bed, but I think I can change the sheets :-)

Can you elaborate on that?

After a year, Yahoo moved me to the bay area, and the difference was shocking. The demands made of me professionally, the density of smart and talented people everywhere, the intensity of the focus on tech culturally and socially: it blew me away. I went from feeling like a spectator of internet technology to a participant at the leading edge -- in terms of the skills I had, the people I met, the sense of the industry's direction.

The bay area is where people invent the next big thing, continuously. London has improved substantially as a startup environment since I left, but it's still nowhere near the same league.

Says who? How do you speak on others behalf? No offense, but your post (like many others) just sounds like someone who is upset that were inconvenienced for a day. If you have all of your papers sorted out (and nothing is fishy), what's so mentally anguishing about having to wait?

The problem is, as you say, "the benefits outweigh the disadvantages". So, the US will continue to act this way until that statement gets less and less true. I'm not disagreeing with your premise, I just think your opinion would be a lot better served if you formulated your response to the actions against you in the proper way.

> The problem with the US immigration system is that none of the people suffering in it can vote to change it.

Your spot on with this comment. Until the people who are American citizens start suffering, you won't see any reform in this area. If you are actually serious about reform (and I hope you are, I believe it's needed) than you'll need a much more of a powerful argument than "I can't be inconvenienced at customs". Put some data together about how immigration is needed to create new jobs in America, and if those who are inconvenienced continue to be pushed away, then these jobs are a lot less likely to be created. Maybe it makes sense to create a sub-community of foreign entrepreneurs in the valley who all share your same thoughts?

It's not just 'waiting'. The problem is every time you cross the border there is the very real chance that the mistaken opinion of a border guard would cost you job and your ability to enter the USA for many years. The USA is also an air hub, and many flights would be closed off to you. It's not just an inconvenience.

They have some of the nastiest attitudes I have ever encountered in people too. I've never encountered a group that seemed to be so callous and seem to have a complete lack of human empathy amongst a good chunk of their members. They don't have to, they have a near complete power over you when your at the border.

If you are told you are being deported rather than denied you should state that you are 'withdrawing your application for entry' if you're under VWP, otherwise it can/is a 5 year entry ban.

http://www.borderimmigrationlawyer.com/withdrawal-of-applica...

Typically you have to pay for these 'inconveniences' with another flight (that you pay for), immigration lawyers and so on if it gets really bad. There is a complete power imbalance in that situation and due process, if any, is minimal at most border crossings. ANY record of shit going wrong at the border will result in you getting extra attention EVERY time you cross.

You are right, if you're sure you haven't done anything illegal, it will all be OK.

But the problem is that those people can really cause you trouble. Not only they can keep you waiting for hours (is there even a maximum amount of time they can hold you for at the border?), which can result in lost connection flights, etc. that won't be reimbursed, but they can also allege that there's something wrong with your data and threaten deportation. There's a comment in this thread from a reader that almost saw his wife deported to her home country for apparently no reason. Yes, you'll get to be heard by a judge, but not until you've spent a considerable amount of money, time and patience.

The problem is that those people don't seem to be penalized for their faults. Immigration/customs personnel bullying passengers is seen as OK by central authorities, as homeland security and the struggle against terrorism are the priorities. If in order to catch a couple of terrorism suspects we have to give the rest of the population a bad time, it's still OK. Better "safe" than sorry, right?

  The problem is that those people don't seem 
  to be penalized for their faults.

I disagree with this line of reasoning.

It is fully valid to complain about injustice and unfair policies. It's not a binary choice between complete avoidance and submitting to some arbitrary humiliation.

I might also add that you are speaking from a position of considerable privilege. Many of those who choose to emigrate to the US don't have as easy of a choice as yourself, in that they may hail from less friendly countries of origin.

Sometimes the choice is between risk of "secondary screenings" in the US and high chances of harm and hostilities in the home country.

And maybe you just want or need to visit the US, most likely for business reasons. Still, I spent my last vacations in the US and it was great.

People shouldn't take the whole country for the government.

Complaining is a valid response, too!

"Albert O. Hirschman makes a basic distinction between alternative ways of reacting to deterioration in business firms and, in general, to dissatisfaction with organizations: one, “exit,” is for the member to quit the organization or for the customer to switch to the competing product, and the other, “voice,” is for members or customers to agitate and exert influence for change “from within.”"

-Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States

Is it because of lack of time? It seems like those are general problems and highlighting them in some form might help improve the situation.

Sometimes it just takes a model story "An investor is turned away by power tripping and unprofessional immigration officer" or something like that. Maybe it won't be the story but one of thousands out there.

When Obama first became president I had some hope that things would this time change for the better. But he's as much a chip off the old block as the guys before him.

Let's just say that I'm disappointed in how the US has squandered its goodwill and potential over the last decade and a bit but it's entirely theirs to squander.

China and India are the entities that stand to gain the most from this and in another few decades you'll learn just how much was lost. The US is still #1 in exporting its IP (and is trying hard to get proxy laws enacted the world over by using the WTO/WIPO/Worldbank triumvirate as a means of strong-arming the unwilling), they've outsourced an irresponsibly large portion of their manufacturing capability and they're in debt at a level that can only be described as reckless.

This will go on for quite a while but it won't go on forever, if the US does not learn to play nice and responsibly with others then in the longer term this will take care of itself.

Look at what's left of the former superpower known as the UK to see how fast you can fall.

My writing or not writing a blog post is not going to make one shred of a difference in this respect, these wheels are moving and have an inertia of their own. Stopping them or reversing their direction will have to be done from within rather than without.

When I quit going to the United States I essentially gave up, thinking that within my lifetime things will not be getting any better.

  Let's just say that I'm disappointed in
  how the US has squandered its goodwill
  and potential over the last decade

Albert O. Hirschman actually discusses many nuances of this idea in his book Exit, Voice, and Loyalty, which is about the conditions under which people choose to express dissatisfaction about the way things are going. His book is far too nuanced and complex to describe here, but one counter-intuitive point he makes is that exit, and the threat of exit, can make voice less powerful by making sure that those most dissatisfied with a situation (a corporation, government, etc.) can simply leave, without needing to resort to voice.

You're essentially arguing that exit is superior to voice, but in many circumstances voice might be more useful.

The book itself is highly recommended, and once you read it you'll see its ideas applicable in all sorts of unexpected situations (like this one).

Less immigrants would negatively affect the GDP? I've heard the opposite many times, but I'm not an economist. Why is that so?

But the TLDR is: immigration brings skilled workers into the country, who produce more than they consume, raising GDP. So stopping the flow of immigrants causes GDP growth to slow.

Both because there is a lack of workforce in some areas (farms, low-end services) and because, in some countries where inequality is higher, part of the population feels these jobs are "bellow them" but somebody still needs to do them.

And last, even illegal immigrants contribute to move the economy. Everybody has to pay some level of taxes (even if only sales taxes) and has to consume goods. And illegals usually will try to "hide" and not use as much of public services.

I'm not advocating in favor of illegal immigrants. However, in my view, this is one of the main hypocritical reasons people in power complain about illegal immigration and, at the same time, don't do much to stop it nor to legalize those immigrants.

More people -> higher GDP.

I really dislike quoting the Bush administration on anything but here it goes:

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/cea/cea_immigrati...

I don't blame you for boycotting, though. Not a bit.

So while it would take some time to see the results, and the casual factors probably not be put down to immigrants leaving (or being denied/not applying to enter the US to begin with), you would see an eventual impact on job creation and economic growth.

Perhaps the slow recovery after the 2007 crisis could be partially put down to the post-9/11 paranoia and making it more difficult for smart people to enter the US? It's total speculation on my part (something that occurred to me as I typed this comment), but an interesting idea nonetheless.

Also, the Economist published a list of best countries to be born in: http://www.economist.com/news/21566430-where-be-born-2013-lo...

The US is 16th, behind Australia, Canada, and many European countries. Years ago America was on top.

What I'm saying is that it will make no difference whatsoever in a free-market sense, because the free market presumes perfect information. The reduction in America's fortunes will never be ascribed to our lousy immigration policy - in fact, quite the opposite. It will be used to justify even worse policy. As is, in fact, happening right now.

So while it's nice to think "That'll show them," it won't actually show them. We're the country that originated Hollywood. We're really good at lying to ourselves and each other.

Also, America was on top because the Economist arbitrary invented a couple of metrics like "yawn factor" to put it there. Stupidest damn article I've ever seen. Come to the Rust Belt; I'll show you where it's not a good place to be born. In fact, if your parents make less than about $400K a year, you're better off in any industrialized country in the world.

No, there won't be much change, because those who make and enforce the laws are completely different from those affected by them.

No Customs & Border Protection officer will suffer personally if high-skilled immigrants don't (re)enter the US. And they can't change the laws anyway.

One of the main USCIS Service Centers, which processes Green Card applications, is in Nebraska. That's about as removed from where immigration happens as you can get.

I'm happy here—happier than I ever was in the U.S., and much happier than I think I could be under the current U.S. political system and polarization. There are only a few places that I could see living in the U.S., in any case, and I don't like any of them enough to move from Toronto.

I'm not so sure that every citizen agrees that this is a good face to show guests and new members of society.

So for the last 18 years, they've sent me back for questioning every single time, wasting countless hours of both my time and their time. They always ask me if I worked illegally in the States in 1995 and I just tell them, "No, I was nine years old." When I ask them if they can remove the flag on my account, they say it's impossible because only the government department that created the flag can remove it, and that department no longer exists.

Without getting into too much detail, I pretty much go around feeling paranoid. When I think about it logically, I really have absolutely no reason to be this way.

I sometimes ask myself why I'm here and when the day I finally leave will come, if it ever comes.

One time a guy said "I don't have time for this" and sent me to secondary. After waiting about an hour I saw the secondary inspector and he told me the front line guys would send anyone back that they couldn't process in a couple of minutes and to expect it to happen again in the future.

What worked best? What would you recommend for someone else in that situation?

Last guy I had when coming into the US used to be a software developer as well (Fortran, Cobol, and Pascal) and was interested in what kind of work I was doing.

Haven't had an issue yet. I am on a green card, and even-though all my paperwork is in order I still find myself nervous while waiting to enter the US. Also, the whole fingerprinting/picture taking makes me angry and I feel like I am being treated like a prisoner rather than a tax paying citizen.

If you can show you have enough money to support yourself and get out again then it will make your life easier. However they will already need to be suspicious of you to take an interest in this.

I'm allowed into Oz with as little or as much cash as I like, for the next few yeas at least, which is quite nice.

Final straw came when one time I was returning from an international trip with my x-wife and kids when the immigration officer decided she didn't qualify to accompany me (we were married at the time).

"No big deal, she'll just fly back to Canada" (we're Canadians). We were told she couldn't do that, she had to be deported to the country she came from. "But sir, we just had a single entry visa and cannot re-enter". "That's not my problem, the law is the law. You need to be deported back to countryX". "But sir, we have no ties to countryX. We dont have visa to countryX. We have a Canadian passport, if you dont want to admit us then let us just turn around and go to Canada". "Oh y'all can come in, but she can't".

So I ask for a supervisor and he refused (I later learned he wasn't allowed to do that). Had us sit there for many hours with cranky kids after a transatlantic flight and then said:

"You can take her now (take her??) but I'll hold on to her passport. She can come before the judge in 30 days with the document and collect her passport or she'll be deported to countryX".

I had to unnecessarily waste time and money hiring a lawyer to figure out what the heck went wrong. She showed up 30 days later with our lawyer and the judge couldn't figure out why she was there. Gave us the passport. My x-wife dropped me home, told me to pack up and drove up to Toronto the same day. Even though I was about to get my green card (everything including labour cert was done) I told my employer to halt the process and moved back. For next few years I continued to work for US companies but remotely from Canada and pulled in close to $1 million in salary and stocks over the years that IRS wasn't able to tax at all. Canadian economy (not the American economy) benefited from my well over average spending over these years.

I can wrap my mind around "your name is similar to xyz we are looking for [even though xyz was a different ethnicity with a different age, height and everything]. But for me this made me realize how vulnerable non-citizens are when it comes to US immigration and border patrol. To this day I have no idea what ticked that guy off to single us out like that but I decided I did not want to live in a country where I had such little rights. I am well educated, make a lot of charitable contributions and spend a lot of time volunteering in the local community. Everything the US used to benefit from but now Canada does.

The irony is that since then I've crossed the border 12+ times a year and the experience is always pleasant (now I enter as a Canadian citizen for either vacation or a short business trip). One would think they'd have preferred me when I paid taxes there (and by the virtue of being on visa, they knew a lot more about me).

American go-getter attitude abroad seems to be a winning combination.

Even Singapore has been raising the bar for entry lately. We may see in our lifetimes a world where one can only easily migrate to third-world countries.

I'm confused as well: which path in the system should be credited as most wrong? The intersection of you being Canadian, brown, and in a better profession than customs agents seems rife with opportunities for them to F you over.

Hell, I'm a white guy and despite this privilege I ass-kiss too much whenever I travel because they can decide to do the same to me. Not nearly as likely, but since we gave up our rights to opaque government security services, who knows. Not to be US-bashing, I do the same when I have gone international.

I'm glad I've never had immigration or customs problems anywhere, despite going to some really sketchy places (flying into Iraq as a civilian at the civilian airport with no visa a few times after the invasion...) or otherwise bending the rules ($200k in computers, including 6 big 21" CRTs, on my way to set up an office in Anguilla...).

So as far as embassies go, being a citizen doesn't help too much.

As I said, apparently this practice was instituted just last year.

The Embassies in Bangkok, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, etc. were all excellent, however.

[1] http://www.globalentry.gov/

OK, I like Dutch people, but how'd they get into this sweet deal ahead of classic US friends-and-allies like the UK or Australia?

On the other hand, the AUSFTA gave us all sorts of other goodies; the E-3 visa being the biggie.

Mexicans and Koreans tend not to be caucasian, so at least some non-whites can get one of these.

Not sure whether you would want one, though. It sounds pretty intrusive.

"Travelers must be pre-approved for the Global Entry program. All applicants undergo a rigorous background check and interview before enrollment." [2]

Also, the system relies on a fingerprint scanner. Since I have no fingerprints (due to medication), I would receive a big ole 'X' on my receipt every time.

"If the kiosk receipt has an “X” printed on it, then you must report to a CBP officer. Please report to the nearest staffed CBP passport control station. You do not have to get back in line. The CBP officer at the passport control booth will review your documents, determine the reason the “X” was printed on the receipt and either release you from there or refer you to “secondary” for additional processing.

The “X” can mean many different things: random inspection; you have items to declare; you have duty to pay; you have agriculture products that need to be examined; your membership may need review; your fingerprints may not have matched, the system may have trouble completing the transaction; you may have timed out on one of the screens, or other issues. "

[1] http://www.globalentry.gov/faq.html

[2] http://www.globalentry.gov/about.html

It is a great system, I really enjoyed it when I was there.

While I do love California, and the Bay Area in particular, it is still inside the US. And I do not enjoy travelling to the US. To get to the US you have to go through the twilight zone that is immigration and customs. Not to mention the TSA.

I can remember travelling to germany as a kid during the Baader-Meinhof terrorist era. I can remember that I felt it was somewhat unpleasant being pointed at by germans with sub-machine guns. But you know what: they were not even half as frightening as the sort of personel you encounter when travelling to, from or within the US. Because with the germans you at least have the sense that the people holding the gungs are not the lowest life-forms of their society.

But I am not complaining. Taking this choice meant that I had to figure out what to do. And now, some years later, over 100 people have jobs because I don't want to travel to the US ever again.

This was the climax of the confrontation:

- "Have you been in trouble with law enforcement before?"

- "No, but you make it sound like I am now. Am I?"

- "We'll see"

- "I am a law abiding citizen and I've been giving honest answers to all of you questions. What can I possibly be afraid of?"

Ever since, I DREAD reentering the states. I have dual citizenship, work flexibility, and friends and family all over the place. I find myself spending less and less time in the US.

After being told "and there's nothing you can do to stop this happening again", I tell every British immigration official I stand before briefly what happens every time I want to come back here and they're usually understanding about it all.

They aren't even polite, which as a Brit' myself I am both shocked and disappointed with.

I'd like to see changes there...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6c8bd4-142b-11e1-b07b-00144feabd...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/despite-eu-ban-uk-makes-radiatio...

The jokes might be uncalled for, but you just told us they were under-staffed and had hundreds of extra people to process. I can see why they'd be upset. Especially when absolutely zero of the hundreds of people they talk to in a day are happy to see them.

I get the impression you've never worked in the service industry or in retail. The immense fuckup that is United States immigration is not the fault of its lowest level employees.

I'm not sure how you can use "you've never worked in the service industry" as some kind of trump card, as this kind of behavior could easily get you fired from any half-decent service industry position.

And no, "voting" is not the way these things get fixed. if it was, the DMV would have stopped being miserable ages ago:

1. As mentioned above, the people most affected can't vote.

2. Even if they could, it's not clear at all how to use your vote to affect change. Which candidate exactly represents better service at government agencies?

3. Even if you knew, you get effectively four federal representative choices that could affect this (president, 2 senators, and 1 house representative). In those 4 choices you must weigh all your grievances. How high on the list is immigration staffing going to be?

The reality is that our system is not set up to deal with this kind of particular issue well. There's no good gradual feedback loop. Things have to get really bad, beyond where it's clear exactly what caused the problems, to the point where huge sweeping changes get made, probably over zealous and too far in the opposite direction then.

Unfortunately I don't think most American citizens really get to see the true face of their immigration officials. I've actually had them talk to me in a way that in any other "service" industry I would have made a complaint (but you cannot due to the power inequality, and the risk that they would add a "note" to your file).

So I eat it. But they're really rude, and it has nothing to do with their job. Most other countries manage to get just as much information about you and make exactly the same decisions without acting that way.

But police/immigration/etc in the US is kind of militaristic and authoritarian even at the best of times...

If you worked for me with that attitide I would make a point of ruining your day every day until you quit.

I sympathize with him, but it doesn't look like his rights were violated in anyway.

The system is stupid, and hostile, and (in my opinion) totally self-defeating. And people -- normal, decent people -- will act like petty little tyrants in that sort of system. Isn't that sufficient to call them out? An asshole is an asshole, regardless of their eduction, no?

EDIT: Too, it may very well be material that you gave a different answer. There's only one word different between "landscape architect" and "naval architect", and those are significantly and materially different positions. How is J. Random Tyrant supposed to know that a is a member of the set b for all given a?

EDIT the second: Man, I was in love with the word "material", eh?

The systems should be designed to guide the people to act like humans, I think we can both agree on that.

And just because you don't need a degree to be a border guard, cop or soldier doesn't mean that none of them have post-secondary education.

IMHO, SFO is probably the best airport to arrive at immigration wise. LAX is a little bit worse, but that's more of a 50/50 on whether someone's having a good day or not.

JFK, on the other hand... Ouch.

>Of course, you and I know that the latter is just a general form of the former, but somebody whose educational attainments have qualified them to sit behind a desk stamping passports doesn’t.

Sure, insulting people behind their back is unethical. So is the treatment OP was subjected to.

If an officer is being disrespectful and you dislike him, that's fine. If he's being disrespectful and you immediately think "Look at this idiot, if only he knew what kind of degrees I had" you've likely got a problem.

When someone is a jerk to you you tend to react to that. This may be irrational but that's the way most people work and it is perfectly natural.

Easy to be righteous when you are not the one who was wronged.

They can google your name and find the blog post next time you enter.

Maybe it's just me but I have always had really good experiences with border officers and those guys have always been friendly to me. In the particular case described above I ended up chatting with the guy about random stuff for like a few minutes after which he wished me a great day.

Don't forget those people are human too, and unless you act like a terrified robot, they will more likely treat you in the same way.

The author considered it worth complaining about, I disagree but again, we're different people.

The fact that you think that it is unremarkable is remarkable, and is part of the reason why this nonsense continues.

Customs, however, would be hell -- essentially on the front lines of the war on drugs and maybe terrorism in some cases (although I guess immigration is relevant to terrorism in limited cases too). Customs people tend to also be more corrupt in many countries.

Ha! I was flying from a East European country. At the Customs at the airport someone was stopped over something they couldn't bring in. I overheard him tell the customs officer "hey let's step over to the side and 'figure this out'". 'Figure this out' is euphemism for "I'll pay you some money or drop some names and you'll let me in".

Ah. Okay, yeah, what's up with that dude? :)

And the condescending remarks about the officer not knowing the difference between "web developer" and "software developer" were unnecessary.

AND...for those of you who brush this off. Please contact my wife and ask her feelings about immigration. When I was going through my green card process she just about went nuts at the immigration office and destroyed a few of the workers. Eventually she had to stop coming to the appointments and just wished me luck. She is more frustrated with the process than I am.

The problem is that we're talking about immigrants here. No one is going to stand up for them. Citizens never have to deal with the these issues, and most immigrants, once they've gone through the process, never want to look back on it again, let alone try to fight it.

For the time being, I'd highly recommend to the poster to enter into Global Entry (people with PR are eligible: http://www.globalentry.gov/eligibility.html)

I'm not saying I agree with this whatsoever - I'm just saying my gut tells me this mentality is likely to get you more votes if you are running for office in a border state. The average citizen is not thinking about the relatively small number of skilled IT workers and entrepreneurs entering the country. They are thinking about all of the unskilled labor that is coming in and "taking their jobs" as some people perceive.

That, plus I'm sure there is an aspect of "doesn't affect me - I have my own problems to worry about".

I think few people would consider border controls to be any of these things.

You were flagged somehow and that sucks, but if you don't like the immigration procedures of the US you are free to either a) live elsewhere or b) try to take action to change it (we are a democracy after all). On the other hand, venting on a blog isn't going to do anything but irk people who wish they were fortunate enough to hold a US green card, or come back to haunt you if this happens again and some cranky overworked agent google's you.

FWIW I'm a former, now naturalized, US green card holder and this happened to me twice in six years. It sucks, but I considered it a very small price to pay for being able to freely travel and work (or not work!) in this country.

Or not.

If you want to know what it's like dealing with government agents in highly undemocratic countries, it's precisely this. Except it's every day and it's in your own country.

When writing my post, I was considering the "unlimited detainment", and lack of due process for non-citizens in too many special cases.

The people "whose educational attainments have qualified them to sit behind a desk stamping passports" were simply doing their job and from what you described they did it without causing more inconvenience for you than necessary.

Like some others commented, if you don't like to abide by the rules of your new country of residence, nobody is forcing you to be there. Oh, and downplaying other people's intellectual abilities does come across quiet snobbish :)

A quick look over the passport shows it's obviously not me (though I don't have any details of the real bad guy). Must happen to quite a few because I have a fairly bland, common British name.

See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#DHS_Traveler_Redres...

It's never been mentioned to me either. I'm not actually a US citizen, so perhaps it doesn't apply. I'll look into it further, thanks for the advice.

Also, sometimes they randomly (not sure how random though) select individuals for what they call "secondary inspection". Here, you are just asked "extra" questions to ensure you are not a threat. I was pulled over once and the guy had a great time asking me all kinds of questions.

Sorry for your experence. WIll try to avoid MIA, as this is not the first bad story I heard from there.

I guess it's to catch people who obtain visa/green-cards and then pass them off to others or their situation changes (and they no longer qualify for the visa). I'd also guess that frequent visitors to the US go through at least one of these increased scrutiny experiences every few years. I don't think it's unreasonable given the amount of problems they have with people trying to sneak into the country; I know that I don't have a right to be there so I expect some hassle.

The only other problem I had was coming back into the US after I'd gone to Canada for a friend's wedding (all on a VWP); so UK->US, then two weeks later US->Canada->US, and I wasn't due to fly back to the UK for another 2 weeks or so. I was nowhere near the 90 days of my original VWP, but they might have thought I was taking a quick trip to Canada in order to reset my 90 days with a new VWP entry. It just took a few extra minutes explanation.

Other than that I've done lots of trips to the US (20 on the Visa Waiver Program, 5 with my H1-B and another 10 or so since I moved back to the UK) with no problems at all.

This sounds like they got a false positive, investigated, and released him. That's how the process is supposed to work. Making this into some massive anti-American rant says more about the author than America. This experience sounds unpleasant, but like it was handled professionally.

I've spent an hour being searched by customs. I don't know why - perhaps because I was returning from India and hadn't shaved in a month. It was inconvenient, but also the job of customs. This did not bother me.

I fly domestically and internationally at least 20 times a year. I get caught up briefly in all sorts of different ways all over the world. It's part of travel, and it's really not that bad. This is how nations protect their borders and enforce their laws, because not everyone is a saint like you.

All you idiots saying you won't work in or travel to the US because of the TSA searches - give me a break. EVERY country in the world I have ever been to has nearly identical search procedures as the TSA and most countries have stringent immigration checks. Many asking far more probing questions than American immigration, including Netherlands, Israel, and Britain. I was nearly denied entry to Britain because I didn't know the address of a friend who I was staying with.

Sorry, I'm tired of all this false outrage about minor f-ups with the TSA and DHS. These organizations have some major policy and procedural problems, but a few hours one time while immigration officials do their job of making sure you don't have false documents is not among them. If you don't like it, go somewhere else where a $20 bribe instead of an objective investigation gets you admitted - which is most countries in the world.

The last time I was in a situation anywhere close to this was when I accompanied my girlfriend to get her visa renewed in London. We had to wait for about 5 hours in a fairly crowded hot room with pretty uncomfortable seats. But we had each other's company and while there was a sign saying we weren't allowed to use electronic devices, most people seemed to be ignoring it, so it wasn't so bad.

But still worse than anything I ever have to experience in my normal travel as a white British man.

This is a privileged person, someone who travels internationally, writes a blog, was able to get a US green card (something tens of millions aspire to,) is in one of the most lucrative careers on the planet, and is the founder of a free enterprise despite being young and (presumably based on his caption) gay. In the grand scheme of things, this experience doesn't even measure on the pity scale, and to bitch and moan about such things reveals a major lack appreciation for what one has and a sad sense of entitlement.

Sorry, no go.

... and who has gone through extensive scrutiny to get a green card.

Exactly the kind of person who should hit red flags at the border, right?

Clearly many of the people in that room were there for a reason, as some was arrested and some were denied entry.

The guy had to stand in a room for 3 hours before entering the country because he tripped a false positive. We can hope that this won't happen every time - if it does, he might have something to complain about, though still not justification for the exasperation shown in this forum.

I even got let back through immigration from baggage control as I had a bad stomach and really badly needed to use the toilet, No guns were drawn on me.

Of course, it probably helps that I'm white and British, but I thought I would offer up at least one counterpoint.

It happened a couple of times that the officer wasn't sure if I was doing what I said I was, for whatever reason, and they generally just asked a follow up question like "do you have an access card for this company and can I see it?" which resolved the matter every time. Didn't realize it was so close to "wait in the horror room for hours".

9/11 seems to have made things worse for pretty much everyone. Governments went paranoid and chose the easy way: delegating extra authority on people that were not prepared to exert it.

But border guards tend to be dumb and/or rude pretty much everywhere, so, don't take it too seriously.

I have kids so I cannot risk some guy having a bad day at the border ruining my life.

Leaving/entering the US is something I avoid at all costs. Sad but true.

I think treatment of immigrants by border controls is shocking, and the biggest problem is how little attention / voice the problem gets.

Please continue to write about your experiences.

Anyway - simple solution - don't go to America. Don't work with Americans.

Europe and Asia are big markets.