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That's a very childlike understanding of the world around you, I'm afraid.


If you're trying to imply that I have a childlike understanding... in that case, I appreciate you reinforcing the points I've made in this thread, namely (a) Europeans are condescending jerks, and (b) Europeans will airily claim "Americans are ignorant" but rarely have much interesting evidence to back up their claims.

Our relationship with Europe is not very important for American prosperity. The GDP growth trend is the same before and after NATO was founded: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/GDP_per_...


These two comments you made above and the fact that you care so much about what a not very well-defined mass of people thinks about you and blames you of that you mistake it for soft power are the perfect illustration of my point.

So, more condescension with no supporting evidence? Gotcha.

Like the US benefit from NATO, "soft power" always remains a sort of esoteric wisdom which is mysteriously beyond the grasp of the average American. I've spent tens or even hundreds of hours arguing online with Europeans. They've never given a compelling explanation of how US "soft power" is supposed to work in a democratic country when the majority of the population dislikes the US. They just stick their nose in the air and say "too bad you're an ignorant American, if you were European like us, you would understand". Europeans think Americans are suckers, in other words.

It's very ironic to me that Europeans say that Americans are purely self-interested, but when it comes to actually convincing to us, they are barely ever able to muster any sort of compelling appeal to our self-interest. (They don't just want us to defend them; they also want us to make the argument that it is in our national interest to defend them! It's rather astonishing.) At the end of the day, "Americans only care about their self-interest" is just another "America Bad" rhetorical point, as is proven by the actions of Europeans.

If you want us to be benevolent to you, give us credit for being a benevolent actor in your region. If you truly believe we are self-interested, appeal effectively to our self-interest, and respect our decision if we conclude that your appeal is unpersuasive or the juice isn't worth the squeeze. But don't constantly talk about how we are evil and self-interested, and then de facto expect us to help you on the basis of altruism. That's what you've been doing for years now. At this point we are burnt out. "The beatings will continue until morale improves."


Why do you think spending time to argue with someone like you is in my self interest? The answer may shine some light on your questions.

Take a step back to reflect on what you're writing here, done earnestly it may resolve your frustrations. It's easy to not notice the world revolving around you and just take it for granted until it's not the case anymore.


You aren't arguing with me in the sense of engaging with what I'm saying. You're just being pompous. Pretty typical for Europeans.

"Don't be an obnoxious asshole to someone if you need their help" is just basic etiquette. Europeans seem constitutionally unable to grasp this point. Maybe it will help if you follow your own advice, and reflect on it for a bit.

(If you don't need our help, continue being a jerk of course. It will help me achieve my goal of getting the US to withdraw from NATO.)

I don't want the world to revolve around me. I'm completely tired of that. I want to be Switzerland. We stayed out of Europe's problems pre-WW1 and we can do it again just fine.

I probably won't reply to your further in this thread, because I expect any further comments from you will be additional fact-free condescension. (If you want me to reply I suggest you start by apologizing.)

Anyways, good luck with Russia.


You need help, the path you're on is self-destructive.

It goes to show how pointless it is to chase 'soft power' by appealing to global public opinion. Even in democratic countries, most leaders have sub-50% approval. So even if the US was run by a politician chosen by a global electorate, we would most likely still be hated.

And of course good intentions are no guarantee of good results, e.g. I believe Bush had good intentions with Iraq, he was just incompetent.

China is very smart to simply not get involved in much of anything. As soon as you do something, it gives people the opportunity to blame you, if even a single person thinks the result is even a little bit less than perfect.

Switzerland is the smartest.




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