>> I hope the terms are near market.

What is "market" - anyone able to put tangible numbers to this?

pre-seed market is $0 until founder is powerful enough to drive it higher. Markets measure power

If they were "below market", wouldn't founders... go get the market rate from someone else?

And who would be that someone else ? There is really only YC, 500 Startups etc. which are highly competitive and accept you only at certain times of the year.

Plus fundraising is extremely time consuming and not every startups wants to throw away 3-6 months.

But then that's "the market", isn't it?

I also think the point of these sorts of seed programs is to offer early money that doesn't take 3-6 months of distraction-from-building to fundraise.

The problem is that they only accept startups at specific times of the year.

So often you've just missed that window and have to wait 3-6 months.

What you’re saying is explicitly false about the a16z START program, which says its applications are always open on a rolling basis.

Also, as much help as a program like YC can be, if you ‘wait’ between sessions, rather than keep making as much progress as you can, you may not be what they’re looking for. (Longtime YC observers will also know that for good applicants, they sometimes act outside the normal deadlines/cycles.)

Are you using your creativity, & skill in arguing, to convince yourself things are harder than they are?

Not sure what you're even talking about.

No one is saying do nothing between applications. Just pointing out that it takes time to apply, opportunities coming around a few times a year and for many startups lack of funding can hurt/kill them.

The time it takes to apply for these seed programs is days not months. Many (including a16z START & 500startups) don't limit applications to "a few times a year" nor "accept you only at certain times of the year".

And the 'etc' of your claim "[t]here is really only YC, 500 Startups etc" hides a ton of options, including this a16z START program, programs from other VCs, TechStars, & a world of other seed-level options from other individual, syndicate (AngelList), or regionally-motivated investors. And, plenty have always-open rolling, or diverse staggered, investment windows.

So you never have to "throw away 3-6 months" or "wait 3-6 months" if you're making demonstrable progress on a good concept.

(Sure, once you've got a big burn rate, fundraising is likely to be a year-round time-suck with many-month closing cycles. But that's not the "even if you don’t yet have a fully formed idea and haven’t yet quit your day job" point this early-seed "market" targets.)

there are thousands of pre-seed investors at this point

The advice I got, which helped me: Series A intros come from Seed investors. Seed intros come from domain specialist angels. So start with angels who know your niche.

If you don't know how to do that, join a pre-seed coaching program like https://www.lindsayt.com/ this costs $1000 for 6 months of weekly calls and comes with tons of training that you don't realize you need, and will put you into contact with dozens of other founders.

Another one - https://www.primary.vc/firstedition/posts/cohort-four-primar... this is free, there is an application but you can still have a job

Probably $1M on a capped SAFE. They’re unlikely to price rounds that early