All well and good if it's all about smarts and money, but the social aspects of having to spend four years collaborating and tolerating your peers cannot be underestimated. People who've gone through four years of college are, typically, well-rounded in their general knowledge and social skills, more liberal and more tolerant.
Colleges don't just take in kids and output kids with knowledge. They turn kids into a certain type of adult.
speaking as someone who didn't go to college, I kindof agree. I mean, I don't know if I agree with the 'more tolerant' bit, but certainly, more liberal and better able to get along with other people who have college degrees, more likely to understand (or at least pretend to understand) modern art, etc...
There are also other, harder to define social changes. The most negative side of this is that I know people who earn 1/5th what I do who won't lower themselves to replacing the brakes on their car. I mean, 'round these parts, mechanics charge $70-$90 an hour. Not many of us make more than that after taxes. This unwillingness to 'break the rules' and accomplish what you need to accomplish can be a pretty big problem.
I don't know if it is what college teaches, or if this is simply what college filters for, but it seems that people who went to school have a narrower view of what they are able/willing to do. (Not as narrow as what one learns in service jobs, but still pretty narrow compared to those of us who do work that 'requires' a degree without having one.)
I mean, that's not always true. I know many English majors turned programmers, some who have become really excellent, and a ridiculous number of physicists turned programmers. But College, in general, seems to come with a diminished respect for industry, especially the trades and working with your hands in general (unless it is 'art') - see discussions here about programming as an art. to some people, it seems, you are somehow insulting programming by comparing it to the work of an electrician, a bricklayer or other tradesman, which to me absolutely sings of arrogance.
Maybe. In some ways, I'm very proud to have as done as well as I have without school... in other ways I feel like a dumb hick around my co-workers. Hell, even half the people who work for me now went to school. So yeah, there is maybe some, ah, feelings of social inadequacy there, but I don't think that entirely invalidates my point.
Oh man, speaking of coming off like a hick, yesterday I took my new intern out to the co-lo (the last few days have been a flurry of hardware work) As usual, I stopped off at the local, excellent BBQ place (Sams BBQ; pretty close to my co-lo in San Jose) It was bluegrass night (I hadn't remembered this)
He commented "Wow, this is.... authentic" - I don't know if he thought I was going to tell him he had a 'purdy mouth' or what, but he was obviously pretty uncomfortable. He ended up getting his chicken sandwich 'to go'
The whole day probably wasn't going well for him. he wants to do software stuff, but circumstances dictated that hardware was the order of the day, so he got to follow me around in noisy environments while I tracked down obscure parts.
Nice comment. Just to make sure we're on the same page here, my comment about the insecurity was aimed at people who are insulted when programming is compared to tradesman like work.
Based on your civility and overall personality if I was to meet you with no prior knowledge of your educational history I would assume you had a bachelors if not a graduate degree.
I am, ah, somewhat different in person. I met my current girlfriend on a mailing list. When we first met, she said "Wow, you a lot less articulate in person"
Hah. I might be the same way. A lot of times I realize I don't know how to pronounce words or that I've never said words verbally even though I use them all the time online.
Case in point: 'articulate'. I bet I've used it quite a bit online but nary a time in real life.
So it's not about the curriculum? How else would this gestalt effect occur? I can well understand how treatment effects happen at the Naval Academy or at prep schools, but it seems most colleges seem to define their experience primarily by their curriculum.
but it seems most colleges seem to define their experience primarily by their curriculum.
It's important to remember who typically has the biggest say and financial influence over choosing a university to attend: the parents. Steve Jr might have a few party colleges in his roster, but mom and dad want to pay for the "best education." Sell what the people with the money want ;-)
Colleges don't just take in kids and output kids with knowledge. They turn kids into a certain type of adult.