I share your awe of the NTSB and their reports. Here's my favorite quote from the Alaskan Airlines door plug incident[1]:
We determined that the probable cause of this accident was the in-flight separation of the left MED plug due to Boeing’s failure to provide adequate training, guidance, and oversight necessary to ensure that manufacturing personnel could consistently and correctly comply with its parts removal process, which was intended to document and ensure that the securing bolts and hardware that were removed to facilitate rework during the manufacturing process were properly reinstalled.
Let's pretend Alice tells the truth 100% of the time, and Bob is still at 20%. It's more easy to intuit that Bob's contribution is only noise.
Slide Alice's accuracy down to 99% and, again, if you don't trust Alice, you're no better off trusting Bob.
Interestingly, this also happens as a feature of them being independent. If Bob told the truth 20% of the time that Alice told a lie, or if Bob simply copied Alice's response 20% of the time and otherwise told the truth, then the maths are different.
As being discussed in another thread about plain-text accounting[1], what I've found most difficult about these tools is the learning curve between "Assets = Liabilities + Equity" and the realities of modeling a household economy.
I appreciate the level of detail in this post. I think there's often confusion that plaintext == easy/simple. The real takeaway is: "if you're going to go through all of the trouble of managing your economy, you may as well make sure you control your data and own your system."
I began with PTA recently. I think the barrier to entry is high because you first need to learn double entry bookkeeping (if you haven't already) and then you need to decide between ledger-cli, hledger, or beancount, with the differentiators being on the margins and with some promise of being able to switch later. The choice really comes down to which tool has the documentation/community that makes the most sense to you at the time.
Then, there's the import workflow: which "accounts" should you start with? How much history do you pull in? How do you set up an automatic importer? Hledger has a DSL. Beancount uses Python. Either way, an OP says, much of your time is spent manually editing text.
And finally, then what? Can I make a budget now? Will this thing do my taxes? Am I more financially responsible? How do I explain this to my spouse? My pension is kind of like a commodity, but I don't know what the unit price is, and I don't sell units, but what's a virtual PnL and what if I only have a quarterly PDF!?
It may sound like I'm ranting, but I have found that realizing I don't know the answers to these questions (or even that they exist) is the true benefit of PTA.
Every year, I'm asked if I want a different pension investment mix or if I want to change my car insurance. Or, I might wonder if I'm getting a good deal on my internet plan or if a new job offer's total comp is actually better. Am I "on track" for "retirement," how long until I have enough for a new roof, am I keeping up with inflation, did I spend too much on gifts this year?
There's immense privilege in not really needing to know the answers to these questions; getting them "wrong" won't really hurt you. But, being familiar with the routine minutiae of your economy by way of counting every cent, is rewarding, enlightening, and empowering—even if it's also finicky and brittle sometimes.
I may have to try beancount again. OP's importers look promisingly robust compared to my hledger scripts.
Besides being a mathematician and a programmer, I have a degree in finance and banking, so I learned double-entry accounting pretty early. As a mathematician, I appreciate the beauty of this very clever, very general and very abstract system. As a geek, I've been using ledger-cli with Emacs for a decade now, and Gnucash earlier.
Re: learning curve, it's not that difficult. Shameless plug: I wrote a textbook (actually, a textbooklet, if that is a word;-)) about the basics of DEA, focused on personal finance and using ledger-cli: https://leanpub.com/personal-accounting-in-ledger/
I think there's definitely something in it around there's a huge learning curve.
Double entry book keeping isn't that difficult but that's easy to say once you've been doing it a while
I've been doing PTA since around 2018 and there's definitely lessons I've learned along the way along with plenty of mistakes.
I think the main benefit for me is just the system gives you a complete picture of your finances. The commercial services you can pay for just give you a view into a certain slice (e.g. open banking in UK/Europe to see your current account(s)) - I think mint.com did something similar in the US but it never came over here, I don't know if it still exists. Maybe that's enough for most people, but for me I want everything, investments, liabilities, assets etc. None of these commercial offerings have that because it's so complex and niche, e.g. your open banking provider won't tell you how your pension is doing.
It's also just nice to have the provenance of transactions, e.g. if you receive some shares from work, and you sell the shares and the money ends up in your bank account - the incoming transaction will just be the net proceeds but it won't tell you if you paid any tax prior to that - PTA gives you a more of a complete picture that tracks the whole chain of events that led up that transaction into your bank happening. Overkill for most people? Probably.
Mint's value to me was destroyed long before 2024; its originally-reliable backend was swapped out for a third-party one (plaid?) and half my accounts couldn't sync -- making it useless. YMMV, but IME Monarch seems like the current best option in this space...
I work at Plaid, so this got me curious about who their provider was -- per Wikipedia, Mint used Intuit's internal account aggregation tools from ~2010-2024. It's possible that Mint swapped out to some other third party provider and Wikipedia doesn't know about it, but based on both internal and external records, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Plaid. (Intuit's Credit Karma, which was marketed to Mint customers as a replacement after Mint shut down, does use Plaid.)
> IME Monarch seems like the current best option in this space...
Monarch is just horribly overpriced. I'm not opposed to paying for a SaaS or anything, but Monarch is much too expensive for what it is. Empower (used to be called Personal Capital) is free and what I use instead of Mint. In fairness, the only thing that I really ever used Mint for was to see my net worth and account balances.
I dunno. Insights from Monarch have easily saved me many times the annual cost. Other tools could as well of course, but the ease-of-use makes it easy to maintain
I have no experience w/ PTA, but was a Mint user for a couple years before it got killed, and recently discovered Monarch which has similar features. But just this week I got set up w/ eMoney thanks to a friend who works in wealth management. It provides a centralized dashboard (like Monarch), but also the ability to run forecasts / projections, which will be helpful as things have gotten more complicated for us as a couple (running two S-Corps, paying for daughters' college tuitions, etc).
As an ex-Mint user, Monarch has been a very useful and I feel I spend way less time monkeying around trying to recategorize transactions. I really like the budget rollover feature, it really helps smooth out things like yearly insurance renewals. My only fear is if they start getting greedy and jack up the yearly subscription fee. I feel like around $100/year is just about right.
>I think the barrier to entry is high because you first need to learn double entry bookkeeping (if you haven't already)
This. Accounting seems easy if you already know accounting. Learning accounting is difficult because the literature is dense, contradictory, and it's not helped by the fact that most accountants don't even seem to understand it at a fundamental level, they've merely memorized false-but-workable ideas like "debits increase assets because debit means left", or the silly idea about viewing it from the perspective of a bank.
Even accounting profs are surprisingly bad at at this, at least in my experience.
ehhhhhhh I don't think you need to go as far as reading dense accounting literature, I never have and I've been maintaining a beancount files for 7+ years.
The point I was trying to make is that "Debits increase assets" isn't some esoteric technique; it's a fundamental aspect of double-entry that you'd need to know, but it's also counterintuitive and most of the literature out there is full of bullshit explanations that do nothing to help people understand.
The link you posted is similarly full of bullshit, written by someone who demonstrably does not understand the double entry system (they even say so in the text).
But I'm the sort of person who finds it very grating to have to do something without understanding why I'm doing it. If that's not you then party on.
If you're running a business, double entry BK is essential. If you're doing personal finances it is completely overkill. I think the perfect tool is just excel or any similar spreadsheet, and track what matters for you. I usually add numbers weekly to my spreadsheet.
Double-entry bookkeeping is a transformational way of thinking about money. There's a reason it took over the world. Even if I just tracked expenses in a spreadsheet, it would help that I know double-entry.
The concept of DE BK is simple, yet powerful. The difficult part is to track every penny. For personal finances that doesn't make much sense, but for a business it's essential.
I'm excited to take a look at this! Using Charmbracelet's libraries for TUIs is part of why I learned Go. Ruby's TUI story has generally been underdeveloped by comparison.
Also, Marco (library creator) was just awarded the Rails Luminary award![1]
I always loved Charm's aesthetics and it really opened my eyes with what can be done with TUIs. But I never felt like I wanted to learn Go just to be able to use these libraries. Ruby is magical in it's own way, so it just felt right to bring these libraries over to Ruby!
It's easier to ship a TUI app cross-platform, the constraints around UI and state are often simpler, and some good libraries/frameworks (e.g. [1][2]) exist to make a modern-looking UX.
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