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> The original roll out of Healthcare.gov is a counterpoint.

Well, that's not the worst that can happen - Oregon had the idea to let Silicon Valley company Oracle do the job...

In the aftermath of what was likely the most spectacular failure among state-run Affordable Care Act health exchange site launches, the state of Oregon has filed a lawsuit against Oracle America Inc. over the total failure of the Cover Oregon exchange.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/oregon-attorney-...

As a result of the ongoing problems, in April 2014, the board of directors voted to close the state-run exchange and adopt the Federal HealthCare.gov exchange beginning in 2015.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_Oregon

Turns out Oregon even got some money out of Oracle in the end?

Gov. Kate Brown announced today the settlement of the six lawsuits the state and the company filed against one another after the failure of the Cover Oregon health exchange website.

The settlement, valued at $100 million, includes cash payments to Oregon as well as a six-year license agreement for products and services that Brown said can be used to "significantly modernize state government's IT systems."

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2016/09/post_183.html


So if systemd refuses to support musl, it's "hindering the spread and innovation in the Linux space", and when they change their mind and work to add support for musl, it's "to embrace and extinguish it".


Paradoxically that's how I see it.

Being an old fart and sysvinit pundit I am course wrong.


My understanding is that the founder of X11Libre was removed from the X.Org project for demonstrated incompetence.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/X.Org-Server-Lots-Of-Reverts


> for some reason announced in 2008 plans to expand to Georgia and Ukraine

This was a G. W. Bush idea, during his last year in office, and it was never going to actually happen.

At the dinner on Wednesday, the German and French position was supported by Italy, Hungary and the Benelux countries, a senior German official said. Mr. Bush was said to have accepted that his position was not going to prevail,

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html

> Was the EU and the USA friendly towards Russia ...

When Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, did Angela Merkel stop the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, as very sensibly demanded by much of Eastern Europe? No, of course not - if we just trade more with Russia, they will be interested in peace! Germany deservedly lost billions finishing the construction, and it never transmitted a single ccm of gas.

> You know the result of that, but still consider there was no provocation at all

I think a better question to ask is, why do countries that border on Russia try so hard to become NATO members?


> it was never going to actually happen.

That announcement is still on NATOs website to this day. To think it would never happen can only be seen as wishful thinking.

> try so hard to become NATO members?

If your intention is to align with the EU, it makes sense you want military protection against invasion in the future. Even Russia wanted at one point to join. The question is really why Russia should sit quietly while several countries around it join an alliance against it? Would the US be ok with Mexico and Canada doing that? Sounded ridiculous until a few months ago, now that is a sensible thing for them to seek. Look at how the US reacted to just a EV deal Canada made with China.


> what these people thought of us before Trump

Last I checked, Trump was elected in 2016.

In 2021 he tried an autogolpe and by the time this survey was done in 2024, he was not in prison for treason but instead again running for president as nominee of one of only two major parties. What sort of opinion should one have of such a country?

> allowed Sweden to join NATO

What sort of absurd argument is this? Now that Sweden changed their mind and want to enter treaty obligations to help defend e.g. the Baltics, we should refuse them?

Also, I can't begin to comprehend how Sweden would militarily defend Finland, who entered WW2 as an ally of Nazi Germany after being invaded by USSR, and simultaneously fight against Nazi Germany.



All the major arguments in that decades old talk are invalidated with the introduction of DRI3.


Oh, nice--thank you!


Since this is a Wayland thread, obviously the problem is a lack of a common implementation, which deviates from UNIX tradition.

For those who want to complain how lack of choice between multiple implementations is an obvious problem and deviates from UNIX tradition, please wait until the next systemd thread.


Weird strawman, but you do you.


Examples of other operating systems allegedly not designed by professionals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager

The Desktop Window Manager is a compositing window manager, meaning that each program has a buffer that it writes data to; DWM then composites each program's buffer into a final image.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040925095929/http://developer....

The Quartz Compositor layer of Mac OS X comprises the window server and the (private) system programming interfaces (SPI) implemented by the window server. In this layer are the facilities responsible for rudimentary screen displays, window compositing and management, event routing, and cursor management.

The window server is a single system-wide process that coordinates low-level windowing behavior and enforces a fundamental uniformity in what appears on the screen. It is a lightweight server in that it does not do any rendering itself, but instead communicates with the client graphics libraries layered on top of it. It is “agnostic” in terms of a drawing model.

The window server has few dependencies on other system services and libraries. It relies on the kernel environment’s I/O Kit (specifically, device drivers built with the I/O Kit) in order to communicate with the frame buffer, the input infrastructure, and input and output devices.


Window management on Windows is done by Explore which talks to DWM where the underlying windows live.

Window management on MacOS is done by Dock which talks to Quartz Compositor where the underlying windows live.


You are conflating Window Manager with Task Switcher programs.


No, I'm not. Explore and Dock are responsible for more than just that.


Sorry but you’re just wrong. Explore.exe and Dock.app are nere user interfaces and are not involved in the render pipeline of other apps.


I am talking about window management. Window management is about controling windows, windows managers should not care about how windows are rendered.


1. Nobody else is talking about managing windows as a user. They’re talking about the system that manages windows for drawing and interaction.

2. You’re provably wrong even if someone followed your description because you can kill the dock or explorer process and still be able to switch between windows and move them around. Killing explorer is a little more heavy handed than killing the dock but it doesn’t take down the window manager.


You're not wrong about Explorer, but the parent is also partially right.

While you can move, resize, minimize, maximize, and switch between windows without Explorer running, other window management features are limited or nonfunctional without it:

1. Explorer is responsible for the taskbar, and thus the only useful way to view minimized windows.

2. Alt+Tab still switches between windows without Explorer, but the window switching UI does not appear.

3. Virtual desktops still exist without Explorer, but there's no obvious way to switch between or otherwise interact with them.

4. Snapped windows retain their positions without Explorer, but window snapping functionality is not available, and resizing snapped windows does not resize adjacent windows as it normally does.

5. Without Explorer, desktop backgrounds and desktop icons do not appear.

5. Explorer is responsible for handling many system level keyboard shortcuts, including shortcuts for features not obviously related to Explorer or missing window management functionality (e.g., game bar, snipping tool, emoji panel).


As a reminder, the topic is Wayland, and the great great great great grandparents post was referring to rendering/compositing systems DWM and Quartz as architectural equivalents to Wayland in the major closed source operating systems.

The parent, misunderstanding the discussion on compositors, diverted to a discussion about user interfaces. It's an understandable point of confusion given that Microsoft chose to name their compositor “Desktop Window Manager”, when the term “window manager” is typically scoped to user interface.


Explorer.exe and Dock.app have nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about here.



> He also had connections to the far-right National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) and the Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) parties.

Following the source wikipedia gives [1], we see the extent of that "connection" was that the killer donated €150 to the AfD, and that the AfD had previously criticized the victim (by sharing the victim's exact own words online).

Let's apply your standard evenly then, shall we? A writer for the state-funded left-wing Amadeu Antonio Foundation, armed with hammers and pepper spray, attacked a right-wing activist [2]. This attack was one of many [3]. So by your standard the German state sponsors and endorses terrorists. The US Democrat party wants to create an ICE tracker [4]. ICE agents have been the targets of attacks and ambushes [5,6,6a]. And of course it was hateful rhetoric [7] against Trump and Kirk that led to their (attempted) assassinations by the left. By your standard, the Democrat party engages in stochastic terrorism.

Of course that's just guilt by (vague) association. Enough for you, but I have higher standards. Bill Clinton pardoned a terrorist who (among other things) bombed the Senate. She now sits on the board of BLM [8,9]. An axe-wielding maniac attacked a Republican senator's home. Democrat politicians then donated money to the attacker [10]. The founder of the terrorist group Weather Underground [11], Bill Ayers, is now a distinguished professor at the state-funded University of Illinois [12], so we can add them to terrorists as well. As well as the University of California, where the terrorist Angela Davis is also a distinguished professor. "Terrorist" can be a vague term, so let me be specific: she bought the shotgun seen here taped to the neck of Judge Harold Haley, and helped plan the attack that killed him [13].

"In an op-ed piece after the election, Ayers denied any close association with Obama, and criticized the Republican campaign for its use of guilt by association tactics." - perhaps you should reflect on this.

So now what? Will you reconsider calling AfD terrorists? Will you instead also call the US Democratic and the German CDU parties terrorists? Maybe even apply more skepticism to the news sources that have so deceived you by cherry-picking what they show you?

Or will you reconsider nothing, and just hope the next person you lie to is less informed? Rhetorical question.

[1] https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/father-neighbor...

[2] https://www.bild.de/regional/berlin/linksextremisten-greifen...

[3] In 2023, the AfD saw 86 violent attacks on AfD party representatives. This was more than on any other German party. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

[4] https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/5566481-ice-tra...

[5] https://www.ngocomment.com/p/the-first-federal-terror-case-a...

[6] https://www.fox4news.com/news/texas-ice-detention-center-att...

[6a] https://www.foxnews.com/us/who-joshua-jahn-shooter-deadly-da...

[7] That some of this rhetoric was true makes no difference - the charge of "stochastic terrorism" had no exceptions for truth when used against the right. And indeed the AfD's statements about the victim in the case you linked are not even alleged to be untrue.

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg

[9] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/ ("mixture" because yes it's all true, but it's "subjective" if bombing government buildings is really terrorism)

[10] https://www.kfyrtv.com/2021/01/09/democrats-donate-to-suspec...

[11] At one point, the Weathermen adopted the belief that all white babies were "tainted with the original sin of "skin privilege", declaring "all white babies are pigs" with one Weatherwoman telling feminist poet Robin Morgan "You have no right to that pig male baby" after she saw Morgan breastfeeding her son and told Morgan to put the baby in the garbage. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

[12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

[13] https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/31eyvt/judge_h...


This article doesn't report the facts correctly; the search warrant was issued for posting an anti-semitic Nazi meme.

(Just for the record, I believe that a well-known politician should just have to live with being insulted.)

> The Bavaria resident is also accused of posting Nazi-era imagery and language earlier in 2024. According to prosecutors, this post may have violated German laws against the incitement of ethnic or religious hatred.

> The man was arrested on Thursday as part of nationwide police operations against suspected antisemitic hate speech online.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-greens-habeck-presses-charges-...

This article is more informative:

Translated (with DeepL.com):

> The public prosecutor's office in Bamberg has now announced: The search had already been requested before the Green politician himself filed a criminal complaint in the case.

> Habeck only filed a criminal complaint in the case more than a month after the search warrant had been requested.

> According to the public prosecutor's office, the suspect is also facing another charge: According to this, in spring 2024, he allegedly uploaded a picture on X with a reference to the Nazi dictatorship, which could potentially constitute the criminal offense of incitement to hatred. According to the investigators, it shows an SS or SA man with the poster and the words “Germans don't buy from Jews” and the additional text “True democrats! We've had it all before!”.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/schwachkopf-belei...

(Note the date on the last article - 5 days later than the one you linked - likely the facts weren't known to the public before then)


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